ASD Forum

hi everyone. i'm new and have not yet looked through other posts. so if my answers are there please forgive me.
i am asking a few quick questions before heading off out, hoping there will some answers upon my return.

my 5 1/2 yr old son has a diagnosis of ADHD AND ODD. he is mostly hyper and inapproapriate behaviour, NOT innattentive but very easily distracted. i didn't realise just how bad ODD was till dr pointed it out to me at camhs.

different doses of methylphenidate haven't worked. off meds he is lively, happy and always hyper. he is a very loving and sweet boy. he is mostly embarrassing with his silly/ rude behaviour. BUT he never sets out to upset people or hurt them. however is highly irritating.
on meds he gets very distressed, angry beyond belief and physically aggressive (deliberately, as opposed to silly gone too far). often the only way to solve this is to give in to his every whim, t.v for hours, usually the park for hours or swimming. and whilst these are great activities for adhd kids, it is really unffair on the rest of the family. my house is such a mess cos i can't take time out from managing my sons behaviour. my daughters are feeling very pushed aside.

anyway my question is: is this common when trying different meds (i know it takes a while to get them right and dose right) or does this point to bi-polar. bi-polar runs in my family, and adhd, serious thyroid problems in my partners. please tell me your thoughts and experiences. many thanks

Your child is too young to be diagnosed with Bi-Polar and ADHD.

At 5 1/2yrs you have already done amazingly well just getting a diagnosis!
You deserve a huge pat on the back for what you have achieved so far. You are clearly a good parent so never stop believing in yourself and your efforts.
My daughter has been under diagnosis for over 14months and it the process for 45months and she is Age10, they still haven’t committed to ADHD or ADD.

I would be very surprised if your son really has ODD as this is normally a by-product of living with the frustration that ADHD brings. People who don't understand you always get the flack, especially if it's Mum, as she always forgives in the end. When you speak to an Adder it might as well be gobbldygook your talking because if they are not feeling receptive, then the message does not get there. It's like asking a blind man to understand what a painting means when he can't touch it. When he can he has a much better understanding of the possible content. Reading others feelings and emotional state is exactly the same as if we are blind and deaf too except when receptive and calm.

I hate Ritalin but it does help some people. If your son has had the latest slow release form and it does not work then it most likely never will. There are alternative medications but there are Major implications with many of them including Ritalin.
Ritalin is almost identical to Cocaine. All of these medications speed up processing in the frontal lobes so it can keep up with information processing from the rest of the brain. People more commonly understand this state as “being High”.

Please do all of your own research on the relevant drugs as most organisations are biased due to the thousands of pounds donated out of kindness? Some of my reseach is below to give you a head start and more insite.

This is not a new story, but one that should still be considered in deciding whether the advice you received is really the advice you deserve or just an extension of a drug marketing companies desire to get rich at your childrens expence.

This was published by The Daily Telegraph
Investigated by Daniel Foggo 09 Oct 2005

Support and advice groups for parents of children with so-called behavioural disorders are being secretly funded by pharmaceutical firms, it can be revealed.

The groups give out advice on stimulant drugs and other controversial medical treatments for young children diagnosed with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). Their internet sites provide extensive details of medications that doctors can prescribe.


But at the same time they are also being secretly financed by the pharmaceutical companies which make the controversial "chemical cosh" drugs.

Last night one of the groups, a government-funded charity, admitted receiving five-figure sums from the drug giants and one of the companies involved conceded that a desire to sell more of its product was one of its motives for providing the finance.

The revelation comes amid increasing concern over the huge increase in children being fed powerful drugs in order to control overly exuberant behaviour.

Prescriptions of methyl-phenidate, a stimulant sold under several brand names, have increased 180-fold in the past 14 years.

Nicknamed "the chemical cosh" for its ability to slow down children, methyl-phenidate is predominantly prescribed to under-16s and its side-effects include insomnia, unresponsiveness and loss of appetite.

Critics claim that its use is unnecessary in many instances, as the children are exhibiting natural traits for their age which can be alleviated with dietary measures.

The National Attention Deficit Disorder Information and Support Service (ADDISS) is a Department of Health-funded charity set up to "provide people-friendly information and resources about ADHD" and its website provides a factsheet giving details of the drugs that can be supplied to children.

It has received funding from three of the major pharmaceutical companies that make methylphenidate and other ADHD medications, which have been accused of sparking suicidal behaviour and liver problems in children.

However, the drug firms' financing is not acknowledged on the site and nor do their names show up on the accounts lodged with the Charity Commission.

Andrea Bilbow, the founder and chief executive of ADDISS, admitted that her group had solicited and received total funding of around ?20,000 from Janssen-Cilag, which makes Concerta, a form of methylphenidate, UCB Pharma, which also produces another branded form of the drug, and Eli Lilly, which makes a form of atomoxetine, another ADHD drug which is linked to an increased suicide risk in children.

She said: "From time to time we do go to the pharmaceutical companies to ask for money, but we are not getting massive amounts. We don't sell our soul to the devil but we can't survive without them."

Ms Bilbow said that she did not identify the companies which have funded her charity on its internet site because to do so would be giving them "something in return".

"If we put the names on the site that would be promoting the companies and I've told them I won't do that," she said. "That would be advertising and I'm not getting enough money from them for that."

Another website, Adders.org, run by the Thanet ADDers non-profit support group, also gives detailed instructions on which drugs are available. Thanet ADDers has received money from at least one drug company. A spokesman for Eli Lilly confirmed that it had provided support in the form of a "small grant". Caroline Hensby, who runs the website, did not respond to calls.

The Eli Lilly spokesman said that the company wanted to help educate people about ADHD, but she conceded that there was a degree of self-interest in it doing so.

A spokesman for Janssen-Cilag confirmed that financial support had been given to ADDISS for a "specific meeting" organised by the charity.

A spokesman for UCB Pharma said: "Whilst we have good working relationships with ADDIS and Adders, we have not provided any significant funding or sponsorship."

Not all ADHD help groups take money from the pharmaceutical companies.

Glenn Slater, who has a child with ADHD and runs the website ADDvice.co.uk, which does not receive such funding, said: "Pharmaceutical companies giving money is not a good idea as people on the outside might get the wrong idea about the sites' motives."

Jim Mackie, former chairman of the Overload Network, which provides support for families affected by ADHD, said: "If they [the charities] are being funded by drug companies who are interested in promoting their products then that should be made clear on the websites."


You Decide, it's your children that they need to make their profit.

ADHD Chris

hi chris, thanks for your reply.

i took my son to see the camhs dr on monday. he outlined some options and said the best thing to try was straterra. but he really wasn't pushing the issue. he told me to go away and think about it.

i read all the company gumpf. as usual it all sounds fine except it says you shouldn't take it if you need salbutamol nebulisers. and my son does a couple time of times a year, due to his asthma.

and besides that i can't really figure out wether or not i see a need for medication. on one side i think "hell yeah, he needs something" because he annoys the bejaysus out of people.
i am the only person who can tolerate and forgive his behaviour. his dad can sometimes, but him being an "adder" too it depends on many other factors.
i worry that everyone will hate him because of his social dificulties, which is sad because he longs for some friends.

on the other side i think that he doesn't need medicating. medicating is only neccessary to help the adhd minority fit into the majority world. e.g. school, work, social circles etc.
but i homeschool my kids so he doesn't need to fit in. but he also needs to learn the world can't always fit around him.

aaarrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhh. i hate having the responsibilty for all of this. it is hard enough making normal everyday decisions.
what i think now could really change his future.

i'm not ignorant around the issues of drugs to help adhd. but it weighs on my mind heavily.

i just recently met up with my natural father. i get on with him great. but he has led a very nasty life. been in and out of prison forever and heavily involved in drugs. i was thinking that at 45 he should grow up and get sober in all senses of the word, and stay out of his nasty line of business.
but i realised that it is more than likely to be the adhd that leads him into these poor choices. he has never had any help (he wouldn't accept it if it was offered). he thinks there's nothing wrong with him, he's just a geezer. but his cocaine use is shocking and he doesn't even act high.

as you can imagine it is this that preys on my mind when trying to make decisions( to medicate or not, if no legal medication will he self medicate in the futre?).
i know that this story is not true of all adhd people (my hubby is proof of that) but when i look at the two old men in my life, to honest i don't like either of the options for my son.
career criminal or stingey stresshead who struggles to keep his job.
please don't think i'm being unfair to my dad or my hubby because i'm am focussing on the negatives at the mo (and believe me both men have many great aspects to there personality and energy you wouldn't believe)

oh well i'll just have to to keep thinking it though and keep researching.

but any and all opinions and experiences are gratefully welcomed. especially from those who have struggled between legal and self medicating.

many thanks people. xx

oh yeah ....

I AM EXTREMELY SHOCKED, BUT NOT AT ALL SURPRISED TO KNOW THAT DRUG COMPANIES "SUPPORT" ADHD/ PARENTING SUPPORTS GROUPS!

it has certainly put a few puzzle pieces together for me. i have disagreed with many things said in parenting classes regarding disciplining adhd kids. the thought behind medicate them and accept their behaviour has never gone done well with me. if a child does wrong it needs to know it has done wrong, whether it can "help it" or not. that doesn't mean that we shouldn't understand or support our children. it means we need to teach our children ways of learning good behaviour and consequences to their actions. not drug them enough to sufficiently pacify them!
that said the correct medication for the child can make a world of difference if it helps them to understand reason and other points of view.